But in general, we've done well. There is 50% free space in the attic and we're continuing to winnow our possessions. The only thing that survives that has no reason to survive is a set of HO trains/trolleys that hasn't seen the light of day since 1978.

I have distinct memories of those trains/trolleys being set up one morning in the playroom when I was little! So they must have seen light of day at least once!

And yeah, pruning? I do that every time I go home, which is generally once a year so there's plenty of time between visits to forget what's left in boxes. It's easier to get rid of things if you haven't missed them.

I agree fully that pastors have devolved into corporate managers. In a sense, that makes their managerial transgressions all the more aggregious because they clash with the spiritual leader role. Corporate leaders by definition have to act differently than spiritual leaders.

I disagree that the shepherds of the group are actively 'pastors' though. In any organization you have the gregarious, the facilitaors, the people who lubricate society. They are doing the same thing in church that they probably do in the secular world. That makes them good people to have. It makes them concerned citizens. It doesn't make them pastoral unless they are actively taking a role is spiritual guidance as well, an din my experience they don't. Worrying about my body being present (straying physically) doesn't help get me closer to God if my soul is absent during the times I do go to church (straying spiritually).

There haven't been terribly many people in my life that have worried about my straying spiritually. There have been far more worried about my straying politically from the perceived Massachusetts liberal norms (I've registered Republican).

BTW – I completely understand about registering Republican. When I moved into Boston the second time, I went to City Hall to register, and they had a hard time finding the form to register someone as a Republican. Unfortunately I have become disenchanted with my old party and registered as Independent in SF this time.

I loved Obama's call for sacrifice and effort from the masses. Turning the ship of state will be hard, even for someone erudite and intelligent. If he can harness the efforts of the people, he may yet accomplish good things for the nation.

Being transcendant only requires citizenship in this larger environment.

(Being irreverant as usual. Sorry.)

As to your comment "then we poor 4-dimensional beings have no hope of understanding the full eleven and little hope of understanding Him." On the one hand, you are correct that we should not expect a transcendent being to be "like us" or even like anything in our universe (Wednesday's post touches on this a bit, at least in the current edit). On the other hand, if that transcendent being created the universe and us in it with the intent of having a relationship with us, he could have intentionally made us capable of understanding him as much as he wanted (which may be part of Friday's post).

Take care!

ProGasCasMash

http://www.hoppenrath.com/isp/avatar_e.jpg

On the flip side, as can be seen by my posts here, my heart is definitely into less traditional church structures than Vineyard usually uses.

But would it still be "vineyard"?

The forwards of those books introduced me to FJa and his involvements in science fiction as a whole. He told a lot of his stories there.

Yeah, he loved to tell stories. Fandom has lost one of its better repositories of community memory.

As someone who is prone to both beards and sandals, it always amused me (not!) that the self-appointed gatekeepers insinuated that I was not proper to present. Jesus himself would probably get turned away if they had their druthers.

We all have a journey to make. I guess people like that have already completed theirs...?

They certainly believe so.

"Jesus himself would probably get turned away if they had their druthers"

Yeah, the more one studies the historial Jesus, the less one is convinced that He would be welcome in most American churches for *many* reasons.

I've had to give up on some of the non-China purchase plan - even stores that used to have merchandise made in other countries have turned to China. It's all very frustrating.

'Course this year will be starting with surgery (blasting a stone to smithereens) so I say all this with some trepidation.